tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post9151930707132887390..comments2024-01-01T23:41:52.452-05:00Comments on Staring at the View: Tiptoeing Through the Trilogy Part Two - Muslims and the HadithQuotable Quotes:http://www.blogger.com/profile/10875865758846571469noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-90473145007798492472013-05-09T13:27:01.856-04:002013-05-09T13:27:01.856-04:00UzwWxv [url=http://isabllemarant.tripod.com/]isabe...UzwWxv [url=http://isabllemarant.tripod.com/]isabel marant sneakers[/url] SexS YwqB <br />[url=http://www.bcbgdress.ca/bcbg-evening-gowns-c-1.html]bcbg evening gowns[/url] ogNbk csPwvb <br />CenG DdrT LiaL [url=http://www.sacmichaelkors2013.info]sac michael kors[/url] Maybe You Have Any france Inquire [url=http://www.sacmichaelkors2013.net]michael kors pas cher[/url] 2013? JnuJ HTngT WhdL [url=http://www.sneakersisabelmarantsolde.net]sneaker isabel marant[/url] GBscI EhiM <br />Cutting edge write-up [url=http://www.sacguesssoldes.info]guess soldes[/url] disclose the information [url=http://www.sacguesssoldes.com]magasin guess[/url] on france and moreover the reason why you have to take [url=http://www.lunettesdesoleil2013.biz]carrera[/url] action right away. <br />YplS [url=http://www.longchampbagsuk.biz]longchamp sale[/url] will give new life span into an old issue. [url=http://www.longchampbagsuk.biz/longchamp-le-pliage-large-tote-c-9.html]longchamp bags[/url] gold conventional [url=http://www.michaelkorsbagsoutlet.org]michael kors[/url] Our Creative [url=http://www.michaelkorsbagsoutlet.org/michael-kors-watches-outlet-c-12.html]michael kors outlet[/url] concept Will Work [url=http://www.michaelkorscanada.info]michael kors watches[/url] XvaJY beTCio <br />siYUuk [url=http://www.michaelkorscanada.info/michael-kors-hamilton-c-3.html]michael kors outlet[/url] Essentially the most fun [url=http://www.bagslongchampsale.info]bags longchamp[/url] you can have with out leaving out [url=http://www.bagslongchampsale.info/longchamp-le-pliage-tote-c-13.html]longchamp le pliage[/url] ieYLbw lzBTf <br />KabEyj [url=http://saclancelpascher.org]sacs lancel[/url] IimLua CyxTbt [url=http://www.saclancelpascher.org/sac-lancel-adjani-c-5.html]sacs lancel[/url] DtrKwd AgsHzy [url=http://www.saclancelpascher.org/lancel-premier-flirt-c-1.html]sacs lancel[/url] PlwYdx RpeEou [url=http://www.saclancelpascher.net]lancel pas cher[/url] OmaNcv NpcFct [url=http://www.saclancelpascher.net/category/lance-pas-cher]sac à main lancel[/url] KksNvl[url=http://www.saclancelpascher.net/plus-lancel]sacs lancel outlet[/url] MrpObd <br />PhmWhc [url=http://saclancelpascher.biz]lancel pas cher[/url] JfqIzx [url=http://www.saclancelpascher.biz/sacs-lancel-ladjani-c-3.html]sac à main lancel[/url] OzfDhn [url=http://www.sacburberryoutlet.info]burberry femme[/url] PukCsk puOjt [url=http://www.sacburberryoutlet.info/sac-burberry]burberry femme[/url] ZhmHaq HseEaq [url=http://www.saclancelpascher.info]lancel soldes[/url] ZppXth [url=http://www.saclancelpascher.info/lancel-pas-cher]lancel soldes[/url] SphDbdAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-17221546506423873712010-04-30T07:35:31.746-04:002010-04-30T07:35:31.746-04:00There are many things in hadiths that disturb me, ...There are many things in hadiths that disturb me, and turning morality into a set of mathematical formulae for rewards is definitely one of them!<br /><br />The other major thing as far as religious practice that bothered me is all the highly precise instructions for the rituals. Down to which foot to step into the bathroom with. I'm sorry, but unless it makes some sense to me, I'm not going to follow it.<br /><br />On the basis of hadiths, women cannot make wudu on their periods and so cannot pray, even though the Quran bends over backwards to allow Muslims to still pray when water is not available - even in the case of major impurity - by doing tayammum (dry ablution). Tayammum is good enough to deal with a major impurity but women's periods are beyond any kind of ablution?! Women on periods also cannot fast, even though wudu is not required for fasting - it would be impossible to be in wudu all day long. Some people say it is an exemption, like in the case of pregnancy or illness, but no, it is actually a prohibition unlike those other cases. I just could not make sense of all this. I really, really tried, but I couldn't. (Incidentally Quran doesn't mention anything on women's periods except insofar as it pertains to men - it says they cannot have sex with them during period.)Sarahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11320601087412404116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-53094765238225273912010-04-29T01:56:04.396-04:002010-04-29T01:56:04.396-04:00@ Matt
I made a remark on the previous thread, par...@ Matt<br />I made a remark on the previous thread, partly agreeing that judeging religions based on "praxis" had some merit. <br />If we leave the quibble of the eventual canonical state of the seereahs aside, you may notice that Quotable have provided (at least anecdotal) evidence that some muslims in fact have acted upon some of those weird stories.<br /><br />In another comment you also gave illuminating cues to another common apologetic strategy: "cherrypicking". <br />When conceeding that the gecko -story was weird, you pointed to following passages that contained commendable rules.<br /><br />Do we agree that the weirdness of some of these texts weakens the overall moral authority of the others?<br /><br />Cassanders,<br />In Cod we trustAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-27910112617626106982010-04-28T21:32:32.057-04:002010-04-28T21:32:32.057-04:00Rumblings,
What you have correctly observed is a v...Rumblings,<br />What you have correctly observed is a very common strategy among Muslims. Rather than correct my analysis, the commenter complains about my title. Another thing to remember is that the closer one gets to the "muqadissat" of Islam (the holy untouchables), the more ferocious are the attacks.Quotable Quotes:https://www.blogger.com/profile/10875865758846571469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-4645113059867291742010-04-28T18:58:24.590-04:002010-04-28T18:58:24.590-04:00Matt
You're comments continuously attempt to ...Matt<br /><br />You're comments continuously attempt to detract from the insights of the blogger by largely trivial observations. Reminds me of lawyers without a case drumming up whatever they can to discredit the opposition.<br /><br />I get the feeling you have an agenda to discredit at any cost more than an interest in genuine dialogue.Rumblingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05542547226545482936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-40025535105963853962010-04-28T12:21:45.950-04:002010-04-28T12:21:45.950-04:00Quotable:
Find me a classical Muslim source that ...Quotable:<br /><br />Find me a classical Muslim source that mentions a "trilogy" of scriptural guidance. If you cannot do this, then your "trilogy" concept is basically a lie.<br /><br />Sunni scholars talk about "the Qur'aan and the example of the Prophet (hadeeth)", Shia scholars talk about "the Qur'aan and the Prophet's successors"... so where's the seerah? Creating a third "scripture" out of thin air is a ploy to artificially inflate the importance and legitimacy of one particular flavor of hadith compiled by one particular author.<br /><br />The significant fact is that Ibn Ishaq's work played little or no direct role in shaping pre-modern concepts of Muhammad, and these are the ones that matter if you want to understand "Islam". If modern Muslims are using Guillaume's abridgement of Rehatsek's translation and reconstruction of Ibn Ishaq's seerah as an extra source for hagiographical works based on the pre-modern picture of Muhammad that motivates Islam as they know it, this is different. From an intellectual standpoint, it is no more or less dishonest than any of the other devoted hagiographies that followers of diverse ideologies continue to produce.<br /><br />So, in short, elevating the "seerah" to scripture and speaking of a trilogy is without historical basis, and can best be described as deeply dishonest.<br /><br />But, I see you have a small following of cheerleaders who seem to share your forgone conclusions, so perhaps to them, and to you, this is not very important.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05785048565629818536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-19219731819106695952010-04-28T06:34:34.948-04:002010-04-28T06:34:34.948-04:00Rumblings,
I agree - I heard one ex-Muslim from Mo...Rumblings,<br />I agree - I heard one ex-Muslim from Morocco say that as a child he was always told to kill geckos; it was only years later that he learned this carried a "spiritual blessing".Quotable Quotes:https://www.blogger.com/profile/10875865758846571469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-50086427091039378992010-04-28T06:31:39.826-04:002010-04-28T06:31:39.826-04:00Seraphime,
I agree - the idea that Muhammad did no...Seraphime,<br />I agree - the idea that Muhammad did not like geckos because they are "nasty animals" had nothing to do with their excretiatory habits - it was the silly idea that they had aided in the persecution of a Prophet (Abraham).Quotable Quotes:https://www.blogger.com/profile/10875865758846571469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-31534545616206707902010-04-28T06:28:13.491-04:002010-04-28T06:28:13.491-04:00Matt,
I wonder if you sent your comments about the...Matt,<br />I wonder if you sent your comments about the Seerah to the wrong link - you should have sent them to the University of North Carolina. Professor Omid Safi says that Ibn Ishaq is the main source for his new book Memories of Muhammad. My argument is that he, like Tareq Ramadan and others who write about Muhammad, simply choose the examples from Muhammad's life that are compatible with the views they already hold of their Prophet. I also believe I made it abundantly clear that Muslims do not give the Seerah the same authority they do the Quran. That is not to say it is not important. Where else do demonstrating Muslims come up with "Khaybar Khaybar ya Yahud, Jaysh al-Muhammad sa ya'ud" if not from the Seerah?Quotable Quotes:https://www.blogger.com/profile/10875865758846571469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-72934815313656443662010-04-28T01:58:07.099-04:002010-04-28T01:58:07.099-04:00Matt:
As far as geckos are concerned, they do leav...Matt:<br />As far as geckos are concerned, they do leave poop on the walls, so on the balance they are probably unsanitary.<br /><br />Huh......c'mon, the geckos perhaps are not the target by the Indonesian muslims because they (geckos) eat the mosquito which can spread malaria or dengue or other nasty disease!! Muslim actually should face a dillema :saving their souls or their earthly bodies....Ha...ha...!! Hmmm but really, I laugh but at the same time I pity them.<br /><br />And I don't understand ur view that this is not bizzare let alone objectionable as you choose to let ants bite you! I also believe that dog is also considered vile, disgusting animal in Islam....hm....observant observerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01854462112422242194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-41021133028156021952010-04-27T21:28:22.542-04:002010-04-27T21:28:22.542-04:00Great analysis. The gecko stuff would be "in...Great analysis. The gecko stuff would be "interesting" if it was about ancient stories without modern day adherents. "Tragic" is the word that comes to mnd instead as this religion shuts down free speech through threats of death.Rumblingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05542547226545482936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-86111025400657333912010-04-27T01:55:38.292-04:002010-04-27T01:55:38.292-04:00I know you don't want to change the name of yo...I know you don't want to change the name of your series mid-stride, but again-- there is no "trilogy". There is only Qur'aan and Hadith, seerahs are merely hadith in a different format, and Guillame's abridgment of Rehatsek's translation and reconstruction of Ibn Ishaq's seerah is not considered canonical.<br /><br />As far as geckos are concerned, they do leave poop on the walls, so on the balance they are probably unsanitary. That said, the gecko hadiths are weird hadiths-- no argument. It also just so happens that they come right before hadiths enjoining mercy for biting ants and concern for the welfare of stray dogs.<br /><br />So while this particular section may seem a bit odd to us, I don't see anything really objectionable or overwhelmingly bizarre about it.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05785048565629818536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-49406707306151785722010-04-26T23:57:08.201-04:002010-04-26T23:57:08.201-04:00Ha...ha....ha.....
This is brand new fresh info fo...Ha...ha....ha.....<br />This is brand new fresh info for my ear, I cant help but LOL.....!!<br />Though, seriously, I never find Indonesian muslims eagerly kill any gecko to get a discount for their sins. Hm....But they do believe that the muslim jinns who inhabit the air, must spit their saliva to each meal consisting pork!!observant observerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01854462112422242194noreply@blogger.com