tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post8681945739847640841..comments2024-01-01T23:41:52.452-05:00Comments on Staring at the View: The ExperimentQuotable Quotes:http://www.blogger.com/profile/10875865758846571469noreply@blogger.comBlogger105125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-45237531116224034832011-04-08T17:09:05.185-04:002011-04-08T17:09:05.185-04:00Ibn Qayyim, in (chapter) Zad al- Ma’ad, Regarding ...Ibn Qayyim, in (chapter) Zad al- Ma’ad, Regarding His Guidance With Respect to Prisoners of War<br />p.319<br />“And the correct opinion which is based upon his guidance and that of his companions is that the Arabs may be taken as slaves and <b>it is permissible to have sexual intercourse with the slave women from among them</b> without it being conditional upon their embracing Islam.”<br />[cites Malik and Bukhari]<br /><br />The Reliance of the Traveller:<br />O-9.13<br />"When a child or a woman is taken captive, <b>they become slaves by the fact of capture,</b> and <b>the woman's previous marriage is immediately annulled.</b>"<br />O-9.14<br />"When an adult male is taken captive, the caliph (def: o-25) considers the interests (O: of Islam and the Muslims) and decides between the prisoner's death, <b>slavery,</b> release without paying anything, or ransoming himself in exchange for money or for a Muslim captive held by the enemy.<br />If the prisoner becomes a Muslim (O: before the caliph chooses any of the four alternatives) then he may not be killed, and one of the other three alternatives is chosen."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-38380275648940721242011-04-08T17:01:29.396-04:002011-04-08T17:01:29.396-04:00JihadBob,
"Do you know of any Koranic passag...JihadBob,<br /><br />"Do you know of any Koranic passage(s) that allow(s) Muslims to take humans as booty/slaves in the first place?"<br /><br />Yes. 9:5, 8:67-71, 47:4, 33:26-27, 33:50-52.<br /><br />9:5 "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and <b>take them captives</b> and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."<br /><br />Acquiring slaves also comes under the general category of spoils or booty (e.g., Sura 8, also see 8:41, and 48:19-21, though in these instances slaves/captives aren't mentioned explicitly in the text).<br /><br />As we've already seen, several verses allow Muslim men to have non-Muslim female captives and slaves and provide regulations for dealing with them, so we can conclude that Allah approves of this--especially when he calls it lawful.<br /><br />Verse 24:31 mentions "male attendants" (slaves) who lack sexual desire, and these are the non-Muslim eunuch slaves whom Muslim masters acquired to look after and guard their harems. <br /><br />In addition, many verses confirm the principle of slavery as something that is due to Allah's will and control over all things, i.e., that some people are given more than others.<br /><br />Also, 2:178 confirms the notion that slaves are not considered legally egual to freemen.<br /><br />There is of course much more information in the Hadith and Sira, as regards to acquiring slaves either through warfare, trade, gift-giving, etc. Apologists will claim that the Qur'an calls on Muslims to release slaves under some circumstances. That's true. However, there is no question that the Qur'an approves acquiring new captives and slaves through jihad warfare.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-41756750126078007802011-04-08T12:09:25.766-04:002011-04-08T12:09:25.766-04:00The point is there are no slaves today (i'm su...<i>The point is there are no slaves today (i'm sure you would bring up slavery in mauritania/sudan).</i><br /><br />Hello anonymous. That is exactly our point. Where slavery is completely legal or where slavery or close offshoots of slavery occur under the noses of the authorities (the Gulf Arab states), this should be a serious issue for many Muslims to confront.<br /><br />I say this not because slavery is occurring in the periphery of the Islamic world, but because slavery exists in many parts of what is considered the heart of the Islamic world - Saudi Arabia, Sudan, etc.<br /><br />I can't imagine a similar situation in parts of the heart of the West (say Germany or Canada) without much awareness being raised and action taking place.<br /><br />To me, it seems Muslims prefer to sweep issues which they perceive make Muslims or Islam look bad under the rug rather than addressing issues openly and candidly.<br /><br />From that approach, Westerners are even more turned off by the Muslim world where once it was a few countries but now is a conspiracy involving many Muslims who would rather cover up for the practices of their coreligionists (even if they perhaps despise these practices themselves) than to have the dirty laundry of their 'household' exposed for all to see.JihadBobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-59848120752402804642011-04-08T12:00:06.829-04:002011-04-08T12:00:06.829-04:00Greenforest, thank you for your explanation on the...Greenforest, thank you for your explanation on the passages in the Koran that allow for Muslim masters to dally around with their slave girls. <br /><br />Do you know of any Koranic passage(s) that allow(s) Muslims to take humans as booty/slaves in the first place?JihadBobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-20264664555306173842011-04-07T21:27:37.165-04:002011-04-07T21:27:37.165-04:00"There are no slaves today" is a weak ar..."There are no slaves today" is a weak argument. So long as the ayat are in the Quran the possibility is always there.<br /><br />It is a Muslim's duty to see Quran spread in every corner on the earth whether voluntarily through dawadh or by force through jihad. Many Muslims do not FEEL they should force Islam on anyone else yet it is an obligatory duty on them all. What they feel and think doesn't supersede the Quran.<br /><br />With that being the case, there are Muslims who uphold the Quran to the letter and are waging Jihad against others. If they succeed in their Jihad againnst Non-Muslim countries you can bet your bottom dollar they will be taking the women as captives.<br /><br />That means your co-workers wives, your friends wives, people(I guess) you care wives will be taken and divided among the Muslim victirs. Because your God allows them to, they will have no problem having sex with them AGAINST THEIR WILL. <br /><br />And you will have to stand by, watch it happen, and support it. It is in the Quran so you can not wager the "some hadith I accept, som I do not" argument. Perhaps you will even be able to pick out a few concubines for yourself since being Muslim allows you to do whatever you want to mankind in the name of God.former muslimahhttp://evebitestheapple.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-23229037313597532262011-04-07T19:07:24.833-04:002011-04-07T19:07:24.833-04:00The point is there are no slaves today (i'm su...The point is there are no slaves today (i'm sure you would bring up slavery in mauritania/sudan).<br /><br />These verses deal with the arabs when islam came.<br /><br />You obviously dont like my interpretations & the fact i 'jettison' hadith as you say.<br /><br />So why dont you go ask an imam or ask questions through islamic sites?<br /><br />Or are you gona tell me you've asked/researched enough about Islam/Quran?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-30280185498458445582011-04-07T18:43:48.605-04:002011-04-07T18:43:48.605-04:00JihadBob,
Anonymous is apparently confused about ...JihadBob,<br /><br />Anonymous is apparently confused about the verses he cites (24:33, 4:24, and 4:25).<br /><br />The Qur'an very clearly allows Muslim men to have legal sexual relations in two contexts, namely, within marriage with his wives, and outside of marriage with those females whom his right hand possesses.<br /><br />24:33 tells Muslim male owners of female slaves not to force them into prostitution. That is, these Muslim masters are not allowed to force their slaves to have sex with <i>other</i> men for the purpose of making money or profit. I should also add that according to the hadith, Muslim masters are not allowed to have sex with slaves owned by other masters.<br /><br />4:25 nowhere says that Muslim master cannot have sex with his slaves and captives. <br /><br />4:24 nowhere says that a Muslim master cannot have sex with his slaves and captives. <br /><br />Anonymous is grasping at straws. The Qur'an says that Muslim masters can have sex with their own slaves/captives/ right hand possessions, and nothing Anonymous says can change this fact.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-23266391431436945042011-04-07T18:24:03.912-04:002011-04-07T18:24:03.912-04:00hello bob,
I think loonwatch.com is enough for yo...hello bob,<br /><br />I think loonwatch.com is enough for you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-5063729382515991012011-04-07T18:10:02.291-04:002011-04-07T18:10:02.291-04:00Hello Anonymous, even if you cherry-pick Hadith, w...Hello Anonymous, even if you cherry-pick Hadith, what is your interpretation of verses 23:1-6, 70:29-30 Greenforest provided?<br /><br />Do these passages not make a distinction between a wife and a non-married slave girl?<br /><br />Your copy-paste I think only offered a forced commentary on verse 4:24.JihadBobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-81592292218364452772011-04-07T17:26:22.567-04:002011-04-07T17:26:22.567-04:00Yes, i told you before I can throw out any hadith ...Yes, i told you before I can throw out any hadith I dont like. I told you hadith is not from god its not binding.<br /><br />As for modern interpretations (of the quran) I dont think things like pork / alcohol being prohibited will ever change, those core laws of the quran wont need to be changed. But we just need a little bit of common sense and justice.<br /><br />An example I can give is, in most muslim countries when a man divorces his wife, the man gets automatic custody of the children. Even if the Father is useless and abuses the children.<br /><br />So yeah I'll maintain my belief , just as you would yours.<br /><br />By the way do you have a good muslim vs atheist debate video link?<br /><br />I enjoyed these 2:<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c5-vVwJ2eQ<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI9owlpOQl0Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-57151643828027540372011-04-07T16:48:59.496-04:002011-04-07T16:48:59.496-04:00Anonymous
You wrote;
"Whats wrong with god p...Anonymous<br /><br />You wrote;<br />"Whats wrong with god punishing people. After all he created them."<br /><br />That's a non-sequitur.<br /><br />"You believe in god you get your reward from god, if you dont then god punishes you."<br /><br />Again, you provide no substantive moral argument as to why you believe people ought to be burned and tortured if they don't believe Islam.<br /><br />"As for rape and jihad and jihad-raping etc.. your opinion you have your own interpretations. We're going around in circles lets leave it at that."<br /><br />It's not merely my opinion against yours. The hadith are clear that Muslim men can rape non-Muslim female captives. Islamic law of jihad allows them to do this. The Qur'an allows them to do this. You on the other hand use modern Western non-Muslim values in regards to rape, while at the same time you want to maintain your belief in Islam, so instead of dropping your belief in Islam you try to read these modern interpretations into an ancient ambiguous text and jettison whichever hadiths you don't like.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-79864926594995161662011-04-07T15:31:38.566-04:002011-04-07T15:31:38.566-04:00"Your beloved "God" Allah says he b..."Your beloved "God" Allah says he burns, tortures, and destroys those who don't believe in him." <br /><br />Whats wrong with god punishing people. After all he created them. You believe in god you get your reward from god, if you dont then god punishes you.<br /><br /><br />As for rape and jihad and jihad-raping etc.. your opinion you have your own interpretations. We're going around in circles lets leave it at that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-55567102030520548542011-04-07T14:18:28.963-04:002011-04-07T14:18:28.963-04:00To Anonymous,
Again, I suggest you pick a name or...To Anonymous,<br /><br />Again, I suggest you pick a name or post one at the top of your posts, as it is difficult to follow the exchange.<br /><br />"So you say there is no punishment for those muslim men who have sex with what their right hand possesses?"<br /><br />That's correct. 4:24, 23:1-6, 70:29-30 all give the Muslim master not only permission to have sex with his wives but also his "right hand possessions" --captive women and girls, slave women and girls, concubines, etc. Sex with war captives is rape, sex with slaves is rape.<br /><br />The verses you cite don't say anything to prohibit a Muslim master from having sex with his own "right hand possessions," i.e., the women that he owns according to Allah's divine permission. That 's rape. And it is clear from that descriptions in the hadith that this would have been rape, and this is also clear in the Islamic law of jihad. And the hadith are clear that a Muslim wife who does not have sex with her Muslim husband when he wants it is "cursed by the angels" until morning. But of course, based on your above pattern, you will project 21st century modern non-Muslim Western values onto ambiguous or irrelevant verses of the Qur'an and imagine that it says something that it does not. You will then reject whatever hadith that you dislike, such as those that describe Muslims raping non-Muslim female captives all under the supervision and permission of Muhammad.<br /><br />Your beloved "God" Allah says he burns, tortures, and destroys those who don't believe in him. Clearly, Allah fits the profile of a psychopathic criminal, who would have no problems with raping and allowing rape of women and girls. The author(s) of the Qur'an clearly had no problem with rape, as long as it occurred with wives or slave girls.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-36610246969994689382011-04-07T12:38:47.172-04:002011-04-07T12:38:47.172-04:00JustBob
I already answered your question.
If you ...JustBob<br /><br />I already answered your question.<br />If you have some verses which says you can have unmarried sexual relations then pls post the verse.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-87525118128280414352011-04-07T12:08:37.778-04:002011-04-07T12:08:37.778-04:00Anonymous, do you agree that the Koran and hadith ...Anonymous, do you agree that the Koran and hadith allow Muslims to have unmarried sexual relations with their slave girls?<br /><br />- JustBobAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-10546737771921112282011-04-07T11:01:46.240-04:002011-04-07T11:01:46.240-04:00well yes probably it happened. We have to differen...well yes probably it happened. We have to differentiate between what the quran says and what the arabs did.<br /><br />The Arabs pagans buried their daughters alive in the sand because they wanted sons instead of daughters. They also took captives/slaves from the other tribes they fought.<br /><br />So in arabia killing the men(during war) and keeping the women as slaves were part of their life.<br /><br />The quran put in rules and laws to follow, so the above verses you can see you shouldnt force the slaves into prostitution or illegal sex. And the quran says you should marry them and pay their dowry. The children are then free and herself free.<br /><br />Islam was changing the arabian society, to stop them engaging in slavery and abusing women and burying babies alive as soon as they were born you would have to invade and conquer the whole arabian peninsula. So bit by bit rules & laws where followed till slavery ended.<br /><br />here is a good video of how arabs treated women before islam<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFoocsp2rOU<br /><br />@5:50mins an arab says "we buy them(women) feed them,use them,discard them"<br /><br />"woman equal to us? everyone laughs hahaha"<br /><br />So you see thats what Islam came to demolish and erase. Slavery, alcohol, burying babies alive all of that was gradually erased.<br /><br />There were probably also some muslim arabs drinking alcohol,before and after the quran prohibited it. A whole society was being changed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-75847935843180465912011-04-07T01:01:26.854-04:002011-04-07T01:01:26.854-04:00^ Anonymous, do you at least agree Muslims during ...^ Anonymous, do you at least agree Muslims during the prophet's time and after were able to have sexual relations with their unmarried slave girls, but they just couldn't rape them?<br /><br />- JustBobAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-32173228206608784572011-04-06T22:37:11.866-04:002011-04-06T22:37:11.866-04:00Go back to the comments, see how many times i agre...Go back to the comments, see how many times i agreed with you, that there are problems in the islamic world its backward with no freedom and democracy etc..My answers/comments will be different between christians & atheists.<br /><br />If a christian criticises prophet mohamed i will criticise and attack their biblical prophets. Giving them a taste of their own medicine. Since some have double standards and attack mohamed while not applying the same criteria/criticism to their prophets.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-15237040145619166252011-04-06T22:36:17.400-04:002011-04-06T22:36:17.400-04:00"Yes, but not for a Muslim master having sex ..."Yes, but not for a Muslim master having sex with his right hand possessions. Also, rape in marriage is permitted."<br /><br />1. Right hand possession issue i post this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma_malakat_aymanukum<br /><br />The quran says :<br /><br />24:33 states, ..<b>But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity</b>, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is Allah, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to the one being forced).<br /><br />the quran also says:<br />4:24<br />And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess. [This is] the decree of Allah upon you. And lawful to you are [all others] beyond these, [provided] that you seek them [in marriage] with [gifts from] your property, <b>desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse.</b> So for whatever you enjoy [of marriage] from them, give them their due compensation as an obligation. And there is no blame upon you for what you mutually agree to beyond the obligation. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.<br />4:25<br />And whoever among you cannot [find] the means to marry free, believing women, then [he may marry] from those whom your right hands possess of believing slave girls. And Allah is most knowing about your faith. You [believers] are of one another.<b>So marry them with the permission of their people and give them their due compensation</b> according to what is acceptable. [They should be] chaste, neither [of] those who commit unlawful intercourse randomly nor those who take [secret] lovers. But once they are sheltered in marriage, if they should commit adultery, then for them is half the punishment for free [unmarried] women. This [allowance] is for him among you who fears sin, but to be patient is better for you. And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.<br /><br />also this link is good http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12719<br /><br />So you say there is no punishment for those muslim men who have sex with what their right hand possesses?I say you're wrong. Because from the above verses we see you should ask permission of the slave and her family the quran clearly says <b>desiring chastity not unlawful sexual intercourse</b>..So we see there was slavery and captives from war in arabia. The quran was giving the captives/slaves rights.<br /><br />So I dont see where the quran says to muslim masters you can rape your slaves/captives (right hand possesses), also today there are no slaves or captives. There is still some kind of slavery though in mauritania and sudan etc..<br /><br />2. You said rape in marriage is permitted, where does it say you can rape your wife in the quran?<br /><br />"If you accept that it's okay to criticize them, then in fairness you would have to accept criticism of Islam."<br /><br />Criticism is good, I didnt say you cant criticise islam or your attacks & criticism is too much. All I said was if you remember that I will use the same strategy christians use when they post their attacks on islam. Its bit harder with atheists as they dont have a holy book, but we can criticise their ideology. The communists in china for example are persecuting the christians and the muslims in eastern region. The chinese gov is forcing/persecuting the people to adopt the state's prefered 'religion' atheism.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-12310445583842395912011-04-06T22:34:40.914-04:002011-04-06T22:34:40.914-04:00"Yes, but not for a Muslim master having sex ..."Yes, but not for a Muslim master having sex with his right hand possessions. Also, rape in marriage is permitted."<br /><br />1. Right hand possession issue i post this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma_malakat_aymanukum<br /><br />The quran says :<br /><br />24:33 states, ..<b>But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity</b>, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is Allah, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to the one being forced).<br /><br />the quran also says:<br />4:24<br />And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess. [This is] the decree of Allah upon you. And lawful to you are [all others] beyond these, [provided] that you seek them [in marriage] with [gifts from] your property, <b>desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse.</b> So for whatever you enjoy [of marriage] from them, give them their due compensation as an obligation. And there is no blame upon you for what you mutually agree to beyond the obligation. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.<br />4:25<br />And whoever among you cannot [find] the means to marry free, believing women, then [he may marry] from those whom your right hands possess of believing slave girls. And Allah is most knowing about your faith. You [believers] are of one another.<b>So marry them with the permission of their people and give them their due compensation</b> according to what is acceptable. [They should be] chaste, neither [of] those who commit unlawful intercourse randomly nor those who take [secret] lovers. But once they are sheltered in marriage, if they should commit adultery, then for them is half the punishment for free [unmarried] women. This [allowance] is for him among you who fears sin, but to be patient is better for you. And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.<br /><br />also this link is good http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12719<br /><br />So you say there is no punishment for those muslim men who have sex with what their right hand possesses?I say you're wrong. Because from the above verses we see you should ask permission of the slave and her family the quran clearly says <b>desiring chastity not unlawful sexual intercourse</b>..So we see there was slavery and captives from war in arabia. The quran was giving the captives/slaves rights.<br /><br />So I dont see where the quran says to muslim masters you can rape your slaves/captives (right hand possesses), also today there are no slaves or captives. There is still some kind of slavery though in mauritania and sudan etc..<br /><br />2. You said rape in marriage is permitted, where does it say you can rape your wife in the quran?<br /><br />"If you accept that it's okay to criticize them, then in fairness you would have to accept criticism of Islam."<br /><br />Criticism is good, I didnt say you cant criticise islam or your attacks & criticism is too much. All I said was if you remember that I will use the same strategy christians use when they post their attacks on islam. Its bit harder with atheists as they dont have a holy book, but we can criticise their ideology. The communists in china for example are persecuting the christians and the muslims in eastern region. The chinese gov is forcing/persecuting the people to adopt the state's prefered 'religion' atheism.<br /><br />Go back to the comments, see how many times i agreed with you, that there are problems in the islamic world its backward with no freedom and democracy etc..My answers/comments will be different between christians & atheists.<br /><br />If a christian criticises prophet mohamed i will criticise and attack their biblical prophets. Giving them a taste of their own medicine. Since some have double standards and attack mohamed while not applying the same criteria/criticism to their prophets.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-31090433757903560602011-04-06T16:33:37.279-04:002011-04-06T16:33:37.279-04:00Anonymous,
To solve the technical problems you wi...Anonymous,<br /><br />To solve the technical problems you will probably have to enable third party cookies on your browser, and probably have to sign in. I too had numerous problems. But I've been able to post with no problems since I sign in at another blogger site, open another browser window and comment here.<br /><br />"There is penalty for rape in shariah law."<br /><br />Yes, but not for a Muslim master having sex with his right hand possessions. Also, rape in marriage is permitted.<br /><br />"I could say the same of USA and Israel." <br /><br />If you accept that it's okay to criticize them, then in fairness you would have to accept criticism of Islam.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-69522658452452510362011-04-06T14:15:08.314-04:002011-04-06T14:15:08.314-04:00sorry, some of my posts are not appearing, i publi...sorry, some of my posts are not appearing, i publish and close page only to come back later and find my comments did not appear<br /><br />greenforest said<br /><br />"There is no penalty in sharia law for Muslim men who rape the female captives and slaves that their "right hand possesses". They are allowed to do it, because the Qur'an gives them permission"<br /><br />There is penalty for rape in shariah law. But there is no penalty for rape in the Quran. You earlier said there is no penalty for rape in THE QURAN and i agreed on that with you.<br /><br />"is that it poses a major threat to safety, security, and basic freedoms worldwide. Murder, rape, terrorism, slavery, fraud and extortion, killing of "<br /><br />I could say the same of USA and Israel.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-34153511822021410812011-04-06T14:07:44.501-04:002011-04-06T14:07:44.501-04:00I publish my comments , read it and then refresh t...I publish my comments , read it and then refresh the page, only to find it all gone. what i posted was the second half of my post.<br /><br />Cathy said<br /><br />"I've been subject to whistles when walking by construction sites and have had to turn down some over aggressive come ons, but that's part of life."<br /><br />I agree, its part of life. You find abuse of women everywhere in the world, so why blame Islam for the abuse women recieve in muslim countries?<br /><br />--hope this appears this time..--Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-17771537595602358212011-04-06T14:05:56.156-04:002011-04-06T14:05:56.156-04:00To Anonymous at April 6, 2011 1:54 PM,
You contin...To Anonymous at April 6, 2011 1:54 PM,<br /><br />You continue to obfuscate, deflect, and deny. There is no penalty in sharia law for Muslim men who rape the female captives and slaves that their "right hand possesses". They are allowed to do it, because the Qur'an gives them permission. (I've already cited the verses, so go look).<br /><br />The reason we criticize Islam is that it poses a major threat to safety, security, and basic freedoms worldwide. Murder, rape, terrorism, slavery, fraud and extortion, killing of "blapshemers", killing of "apostates," killing of those who try to persuade Muslims to change their beliefs, subjugation of women, subjugation of non-Muslims, immigration and demographic jihad...all of these things cluster together under the category "Islam." Hence, it is entirely appropriate and justified to criticize this 1400-year long massive cult of death, deception, and destruction known as "Islam." When Muslims, in significant numbers, stop doing these things, stop the jihad, stop the sharia, then I'll stop criticizing them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4385205961037530446.post-37726064024177310982011-04-06T13:57:01.316-04:002011-04-06T13:57:01.316-04:00"Again, Islam critics aren't saying Musli..."Again, Islam critics aren't saying Muslim males are the only ones committing rape and sexual harassment. They aren't denying that sexual harassment is a major problem."<br /><br />Exactly, and what my point is that i am not here to defend the crimes that muslims commit. You and cathy and others are posting examples of crimes committed by muslims, and you are saying its because of islam or their culture that allows them to do this which is silly. We can see there are other rapists/murderes of other religions. Furthermore we discussed this as I said the islamic world is corrupt and backward and needs to improve. And I think here is what we differ at, I dont believe that Islam as a religion its the muslims the followers that are at fault , were as I suspect you and others like you believe its Islam at fault and its best for muslims to leave islam. Now that said , if you continue to post propaganda and post links to crimes commited by muslims such as rape and claim there are many muslim rapists , because islam allows it , so as to take over the world, then that is false and not true. I would then post links such as those from loonwatch, not just for you or cathy to read but for the other audience/readers of this blog comments.<br /><br />So its propaganda from you and propaganda from me ! <br /><br />Cathy said <br /><br />"I've been subject to whistles when walking by construction sites and have had to turn down some over aggressive come ons, but that's part of life."<br /><br />I agree, its part of life. But when you or other people write stuff like muslims rape because there is no punishment for rape in islam or muslims dont respect women because of islam, then we have a problem here. Nobody who has common sense would defend rape or abuse of women. I see rape and beating of women in islamic country and the same in western countries. Many would read the verse in the quran which says beat women and end up assaulting their wife, similarly you find the same kind of verses in the bible and christians who take it literally.<br /><br />If you are going to attack/criticise islam and claim muslims did crime 'X' because of their quran , then the same should be said of followers of other religions. I reiterate, you dont deny that there is abuse of women in the west and i dont deny the abuse of women in islamic countries. So why dont we leave it at that?<br /><br />Was it you or Greenforest that mentioned the UN killings (because of burning quran) and similar other events, I mean i could say what about the 1 million + iraqis killed by the west? what about the thousands in afghanistan? So my issue here is the double standards, this websites explains it best http://whatiftheyweremuslim.com/<br /><br />--hmm sometimes i post my comment and it doesnt appear, seems i have to refresh the page--Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com